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	<title>Comments on: The ascendancy of Hacker News &amp; the gentrification of geek news communities</title>
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	<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/</link>
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		<title>By: Peter Christensen</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1919</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1919</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think democratization is a better word than gentrification. In gentrification, something bad is turned into something good, in the process displacing those who made it good. In democratization, something scarce and luxurious is devalued by its increasing popularity. Niche Communities (like HN) despise the unwashed masses and recoil when their community is invaded.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think democratization is a better word than gentrification. In gentrification, something bad is turned into something good, in the process displacing those who made it good. In democratization, something scarce and luxurious is devalued by its increasing popularity. Niche Communities (like HN) despise the unwashed masses and recoil when their community is invaded.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1920</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1920</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&#8220;in the process displacing those who made it good.&#8221;&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;Two problems with that:&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;1. Gentrification does not imply displacement.  It can happen but is a political attachment to the term.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;2. Displacement does not necessarily displace &#8220;those who made it good&#8221;, whatever that means.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;&#8220;In democratization, something scarce and luxurious is devalued by its increasing popularity.&#8221;&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;Huh?  Again more political attachments.  How is the ability to read and write devalued as more people learn?&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;I think the gentrification term is more appropriate.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;in the process displacing those who made it good.&#8221;</p>
<p>Two problems with that:</p>
<p>1. Gentrification does not imply displacement.  It can happen but is a political attachment to the term.</p>
<p>2. Displacement does not necessarily displace &#8220;those who made it good&#8221;, whatever that means.</p>
<p>&#8220;In democratization, something scarce and luxurious is devalued by its increasing popularity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Huh?  Again more political attachments.  How is the ability to read and write devalued as more people learn?</p>
<p>I think the gentrification term is more appropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: iain</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1921</link>
		<dc:creator>iain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1921</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&#8220;Find ways to use emergent behavior to find real and relevant content without having it be gameable. ... Perhaps weâ€™ll just switch sites every 6 months to a year, but thereâ€™s got to be a better way.&#8221; 
Switching sites every so often &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; emergent behaviour. The Alphas don&#8217;t all huddle and make a decision to move on, they just happen to see something better and start using it at (roughly) the same time.
And if doing so takes less aggregate effort than building something to block spam&#8230; it sounds like the right solution.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Find ways to use emergent behavior to find real and relevant content without having it be gameable. &#8230; Perhaps weâ€™ll just switch sites every 6 months to a year, but thereâ€™s got to be a better way.&#8221;<br />
Switching sites every so often <em>is</em> emergent behaviour. The Alphas don&#8217;t all huddle and make a decision to move on, they just happen to see something better and start using it at (roughly) the same time.<br />
And if doing so takes less aggregate effort than building something to block spam&#8230; it sounds like the right solution.</p>
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		<title>By: Giles Bowkett</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1922</link>
		<dc:creator>Giles Bowkett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1922</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We don&#8217;t have to keep moving. There is a better way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t have to keep moving. There is a better way.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1923</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1923</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It&#8217;s not gentrification. The way you describe it, it&#8217;s White Flight.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;Can you not see the irony of playing up your role in Indymedia and calling yourself &#8220;Anarchogeek&#8221;, then leaving for the the most elitist community of them all, Hacker News, leaving the &#8220;unwashed masses&#8221; as you call them in your trail?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not gentrification. The way you describe it, it&#8217;s White Flight.</p>
<p>Can you not see the irony of playing up your role in Indymedia and calling yourself &#8220;Anarchogeek&#8221;, then leaving for the the most elitist community of them all, Hacker News, leaving the &#8220;unwashed masses&#8221; as you call them in your trail?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Crawford</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1924</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1924</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Perhaps what&#8217;s needed is something like &#8220;hot tubbing&#8221; as described in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.plocktau.com/writing/hottub.html&quot;&gt;Hot  Tubbing an Online Community&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;Basically what you want is a poll tax. If what you want is to keep out the rabble and be exclusionary, then you need to set standards for participation.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;For those of you who argue that&#8217;s elitist, undemocratic, and wrong, I reply that you&#8217;re right.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;The gold standard for non-filtering or very very weak filtering is YouTube, whose comment threads are all but unreadable. Actually, no, they&#8217;re utterly unreadable.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;Metafilter, a place with great comments has restrictions on membership, well executed flagging of comments and participation, and a loyal community. It works because there&#8217;s are standards set for participation.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;(came in via Waxy.org. Interesting stuff you have here)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps what&#8217;s needed is something like &#8220;hot tubbing&#8221; as described in <a href="http://www.plocktau.com/writing/hottub.html">Hot  Tubbing an Online Community</a>.</p>
<p>Basically what you want is a poll tax. If what you want is to keep out the rabble and be exclusionary, then you need to set standards for participation.</p>
<p>For those of you who argue that&#8217;s elitist, undemocratic, and wrong, I reply that you&#8217;re right.</p>
<p>The gold standard for non-filtering or very very weak filtering is YouTube, whose comment threads are all but unreadable. Actually, no, they&#8217;re utterly unreadable.</p>
<p>Metafilter, a place with great comments has restrictions on membership, well executed flagging of comments and participation, and a loyal community. It works because there&#8217;s are standards set for participation.</p>
<p>(came in via Waxy.org. Interesting stuff you have here)</p>
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		<title>By: rabble</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1925</link>
		<dc:creator>rabble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1925</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So joe i&#8217;ve been to that hot tub, and there are a few rules not mentioned which keep it running. First codes are revoked if they are abused, and secondly only women get the codes. There are rules about being quite and the like, but the first two rules are pretty much enough to keep things in check. 
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;
The question is, how do you compare that to online communities. And how do you create online communities dedicated to finding new stuff, which is what these link voting sites do, which retain quality. 
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;

How do you find the women to keep the keys, the people least likely to abuse the situation, yet also create space for participation. 
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;Regarding keeping the rabble out, what a very funny concept&#8230; To me it&#8217;s about how to do we create a space for the multitude, many different identities, communities, subcultures, which can share and discover without being overwhelmed by a dominate monoculture, which is the gentrifying force of online communities. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So joe i&#8217;ve been to that hot tub, and there are a few rules not mentioned which keep it running. First codes are revoked if they are abused, and secondly only women get the codes. There are rules about being quite and the like, but the first two rules are pretty much enough to keep things in check.
</p>
<p>
The question is, how do you compare that to online communities. And how do you create online communities dedicated to finding new stuff, which is what these link voting sites do, which retain quality.
</p>
<p>How do you find the women to keep the keys, the people least likely to abuse the situation, yet also create space for participation.
</p>
</p>
<p>Regarding keeping the rabble out, what a very funny concept&#8230; To me it&#8217;s about how to do we create a space for the multitude, many different identities, communities, subcultures, which can share and discover without being overwhelmed by a dominate monoculture, which is the gentrifying force of online communities. </p>
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		<title>By: vanjulio</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1926</link>
		<dc:creator>vanjulio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1926</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here is an example of how we keep the signal to noise ratio at top level:
http://people.squeakfoundation.org/trust-metric.html&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an example of how we keep the signal to noise ratio at top level:<br />
<a href="http://people.squeakfoundation.org/trust-metric.html" rel="nofollow">http://people.squeakfoundation.org/trust-metric.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Neil Kandalgaonkar</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1927</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Kandalgaonkar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1927</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is something I&#8217;ve been giving a lot of thought to. Your analogy to gentrification is excellent.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;I don&#8217;t think the trust metric solution is appropriate; it&#8217;s solving a different problem. That might allow a community to grow without being taken over by spammers. It does not allow someone to continue to have that cool little neighborhood they had when they started. As they grow, sites like reddit drift towards lowest common denominator news items, like cute pictures, because they are the most generally popular. You can recover some of the original community by going to specialized topics, but that wasn&#8217;t as interesting as being involved with a community of people who shared the pioneer spirit. I wonder if one can create a cohort group for people that joined around the same time as oneself.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is something I&#8217;ve been giving a lot of thought to. Your analogy to gentrification is excellent.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the trust metric solution is appropriate; it&#8217;s solving a different problem. That might allow a community to grow without being taken over by spammers. It does not allow someone to continue to have that cool little neighborhood they had when they started. As they grow, sites like reddit drift towards lowest common denominator news items, like cute pictures, because they are the most generally popular. You can recover some of the original community by going to specialized topics, but that wasn&#8217;t as interesting as being involved with a community of people who shared the pioneer spirit. I wonder if one can create a cohort group for people that joined around the same time as oneself.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Hotson</title>
		<link>http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-1928</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Hotson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anarchogeek.com/2008/07/07/the-ascendancy-of-hacker-news-the-gentrification-of-geek-news-communities#comment-1928</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;From what I can tell, I&#8217;ve had a similar experience to yours. As sites like Digg and Reddit became more popular, they became less and less interesting for me.
That&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t tell anyone about Hacker News. :)&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;It&#8217;s a bit selfish I know, but one of the great things about Hacker News is that the names there often look familiar. The community seems small enough that you feel like you know people there.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;Oh and by the way, I submitted your brickhouse post to Hacker News. I found it on someone&#8217;s del.icio.us network. I hope you don&#8217;t mind. :)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I can tell, I&#8217;ve had a similar experience to yours. As sites like Digg and Reddit became more popular, they became less and less interesting for me.<br />
That&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t tell anyone about Hacker News. <img src='http://anarchogeek.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit selfish I know, but one of the great things about Hacker News is that the names there often look familiar. The community seems small enough that you feel like you know people there.</p>
<p>Oh and by the way, I submitted your brickhouse post to Hacker News. I found it on someone&#8217;s del.icio.us network. I hope you don&#8217;t mind. <img src='http://anarchogeek.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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