Comments on: The Future of Email: From SMTP to XMPP http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/ Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:51:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: xian http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1903 xian Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1903 <p>Rabble, I love this idea, but how does a buddy list transate into an email white list?</p> <p>At scale, won’t I be “spammed” constantly by permission reuqests?</p> Rabble, I love this idea, but how does a buddy list transate into an email white list?

At scale, won’t I be “spammed” constantly by permission reuqests?

]]> By: Charlie http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1904 Charlie Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1904 <p>This is a cool idea. And <span class="caps">XMPP</span> seems to be getting a lot of attention in another sphere now too – as a messaging protocol, say, in cloud computing applications. http://brainspl.at/articles/2008/06/02/introducing-vertebra</p> <p>What would also be cool is if someone like facebook did this, and supported xmpp for im and email, and <span class="caps">NOT</span> smtp. Then everybody gets a soandso@facebook.com address, using just the shiny new stuff. That plus adoption from gmail/gtalk would get pretty much everybody’s attention :)</p> This is a cool idea. And XMPP seems to be getting a lot of attention in another sphere now too – as a messaging protocol, say, in cloud computing applications.
http://brainspl.at/articles/2008/06/02/introducing-vertebra

What would also be cool is if someone like facebook did this, and supported xmpp for im and email, and NOT smtp. Then everybody gets a soandso@facebook.com address, using just the shiny new stuff. That plus adoption from gmail/gtalk would get pretty much everybody’s attention :)

]]> By: Caleb Cushing (xenoterracide) http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1905 Caleb Cushing (xenoterracide) Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1905 <p>Email can already do what you are asking for, the problem is the interface that email providers give you to there spam filtering technology plus mail server white/blacklists.</p> Email can already do what you are asking for, the problem is the interface that email providers give you to there spam filtering technology plus mail server white/blacklists.

]]> By: Shannon http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1906 Shannon Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1906 <p>Looking at this another way, by automatically adding your gmail contacts to your gtalk buddylist, does google make it’s own version of IM more spammy?</p> Looking at this another way, by automatically adding your gmail contacts to your gtalk buddylist, does google make it’s own version of IM more spammy?

]]> By: Dan Lane http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1907 Dan Lane Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1907 <p>Wait, EX-employer? where are you now?</p> Wait, EX-employer? where are you now?

]]> By: Ian Parker http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1908 Ian Parker Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1908 <p>I think leveraging social networks for this is a bad idea because they are insular and are not considered to be viable or particularly productive by all. If GMail/GTalk could manage to push the envelope here, that would be great, but older users and non-tech users tend to shy away from IM technology. Not to say that IM is inherently bad, on the contrary, there are studies suggesting that IM makes people more productive. I would argue that with the point that e-mail is almost identical, but that’s another story.</p> <p>If it’s just a matter of the underlying protocol, then the change could be made easily and most easily by Google and <span class="caps">AOL</span> as you suggested. Why? Because it would be transparent to users as they both control the server and client software that users are accessing. As for the spam issue, there are some good points that arise. How do we allow new people onto the whitelist? Can people request to be added in the manner of social networks, or do we bring our own friends? Do I as a user then need to add a contact every time I want to receive e-mail from a new sender or source? That would be rather painful and not acceptable. Administering a firewall is bad enough without having to micromanage e-mail. Technology is supposed to make lives easier, not more complex. I’ve rambled on enough. Interesting idea, you have.</p> I think leveraging social networks for this is a bad idea because they are insular and are not considered to be viable or particularly productive by all. If GMail/GTalk could manage to push the envelope here, that would be great, but older users and non-tech users tend to shy away from IM technology. Not to say that IM is inherently bad, on the contrary, there are studies suggesting that IM makes people more productive. I would argue that with the point that e-mail is almost identical, but that’s another story.

If it’s just a matter of the underlying protocol, then the change could be made easily and most easily by Google and AOL as you suggested. Why? Because it would be transparent to users as they both control the server and client software that users are accessing. As for the spam issue, there are some good points that arise. How do we allow new people onto the whitelist? Can people request to be added in the manner of social networks, or do we bring our own friends? Do I as a user then need to add a contact every time I want to receive e-mail from a new sender or source? That would be rather painful and not acceptable. Administering a firewall is bad enough without having to micromanage e-mail. Technology is supposed to make lives easier, not more complex. I’ve rambled on enough. Interesting idea, you have.

]]> By: david koblas http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1909 david koblas Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1909 <p>Let’s see if I’ve got this right… The idea is to switch the transport of messages from <span class="caps">SMTP</span> => <span class="caps">XMPP</span>. Fine at the core that’s like saying I wan’t <span class="caps">JSON</span> formatted data not <span class="caps">XML</span>. It’s just wire format.</p> <p>The problem becomes that while you can transport a message, who do you receive messages from?</p> <p>If you only accept email from people in your address book (which hotmail supports) then you’re back to needing a way for anonymous communications. The “biggest” user of this is that order confirmation from <span class="caps">XYZ</span> corp that’s going to show up in your mailbox, do you first need to add them as a buddy before a message is accepted? That new website that isn’t OpenID compatible sends you a confirmation message, where did it go?</p> <p>At the end of the day you still need that anonymous communications channel, but adding more and more structure to the display of messages makes a huge difference.</p> Let’s see if I’ve got this right… The idea is to switch the transport of messages from SMTP => XMPP. Fine at the core that’s like saying I wan’t JSON formatted data not XML. It’s just wire format.

The problem becomes that while you can transport a message, who do you receive messages from?

If you only accept email from people in your address book (which hotmail supports) then you’re back to needing a way for anonymous communications. The “biggest” user of this is that order confirmation from XYZ corp that’s going to show up in your mailbox, do you first need to add them as a buddy before a message is accepted? That new website that isn’t OpenID compatible sends you a confirmation message, where did it go?

At the end of the day you still need that anonymous communications channel, but adding more and more structure to the display of messages makes a huge difference.

]]> By: ideamonk http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1910 ideamonk Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1910 <p>great idea… thinking if spam would cause any problem</p> great idea… thinking if spam would cause any problem

]]> By: ideamonk http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1911 ideamonk Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1911 <p>great idea… thinking if spam would cause any problem</p> great idea… thinking if spam would cause any problem

]]> By: byr0n http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp/comment-page-1/#comment-1912 byr0n Fri, 20 Jun 2008 02:16:00 +0000 http://anarchogeek.com/2008/06/20/the-future-of-email-from-smtp-to-xmpp#comment-1912 <p>I think there are actually a couple of good alternatives to the current mail problems we all have, however I see the bigger problem being the backbone providers, core hardware providers and the carriers. Spam is bad for us, but good for someone selling bandwidth. I see that being the problem with the lack of wider adoption of <span class="caps">IPV6</span> at a carrier level as well, because less private address space means less spoofing and in turn spamming but this would cost the bandwidth providers precious revenue in spam traffic. I think the barrier in adoption of something like <span class="caps">XMPP</span> is the loss of revenue rather from the problem it will help to solve rather than the know-how or adoption process…</p> I think there are actually a couple of good alternatives to the current mail problems we all have, however I see the bigger problem being the backbone providers, core hardware providers and the carriers. Spam is bad for us, but good for someone selling bandwidth. I see that being the problem with the lack of wider adoption of IPV6 at a carrier level as well, because less private address space means less spoofing and in turn spamming but this would cost the bandwidth providers precious revenue in spam traffic. I think the barrier in adoption of something like XMPP is the loss of revenue rather from the problem it will help to solve rather than the know-how or adoption process…

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